tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2160921736769720124.post1093433423253108146..comments2023-04-29T05:27:41.501-04:00Comments on Absolutely!: Why Christopher Hitchens is wrong about the moral necessity of atheismmaxolasersquadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05885203204831537402noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2160921736769720124.post-25345335713454504642011-08-25T22:03:44.788-04:002011-08-25T22:03:44.788-04:00I am not saying he is wrong that there is no God. ...I am not saying he is wrong that there is no God. That's not the point he makes in the clip I linked to. His point is that even if there is a god, it is so monstrous that being a follower of such a thing would be immoral. My argument is simply if the God that is reported to exist in the Holy Bible, then it would be immoral to not be a follower.maxolasersquadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885203204831537402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2160921736769720124.post-67465450356149735162011-08-25T15:01:56.237-04:002011-08-25T15:01:56.237-04:00You say Hitchens is wrong, but provide no evidence...You say Hitchens is wrong, but provide no evidence to back up your claims. Where, for example, can you prove that God did anything or even exists?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2160921736769720124.post-53013463924086632622009-04-27T00:29:00.000-04:002009-04-27T00:29:00.000-04:00Thanks for the response.
The dilemma is one I used...Thanks for the response.<br />The dilemma is one I used to ponder when I was in high-school and read the bible much more than I do today.<br />If God created literally EVERYTHING, then he also invented Lucifer. If he is also omnipotent, then he knew the consequences of this action, and it does not seem unreasonable to include evil as a list of his inventions.<br />As a list of possible solutions to this problem, as well as other parts of the bible, it may be plausible to conclude that God is an egomaniac. This conclusion does not seem to contradict God's own assertions of his self, as recorded in the bible.<br />I've also wondered if the possible answer is that God did not in fact invent everything. A simple example of this may be logic. Maybe the fact that 1 + 1 != 3 has more to do with the properties of <I>this</I> universe, but more that in any other possible incarnation of existence it could not possibly be true. Possibly, if there is an infinite number of dimensions, it still holds true that 1 + 1 = 2.<br />On top of such rules of logic, it seems plausible that even God is bound by spiritual laws. Perhaps it is a necessity that he can never lie, or that he must forget the sins that have been repaid by blood shed. perhaps even he does not have the power to change these "rules."<br />Hitchens may point at that I am admitting that this is all just a sick game on God's part, and are just sitting down here suffering for his own amusement, and so he is therefore immoral according to the bible's own assertion of who he is.<br />In fact, I would argue that the bible definitely backs up parts of his claim.<br />"God is all-powerful with a determination to carry out His purpose and plan throughout time into eternity" 1 Corinthians 29:11.<br />All of this craziness we call time and space is for "His purpose and plan throughout time and eternity."<br />But going back to why would God create creatures that he knows ahead of time are going to disobey him, the book of Romans actually addresses this issue directly.<br />"Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?<br />Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?<br />Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Romans 9:19-21.<br />The answer is not very satisfactory for the philosopher who asserts his right to ask questions and either receive or otherwise find an answer. The response is simply that God has made us, and we are to just accept that he has made us how we are, because he is God and has the right to do such things. This gets back to the egomaniac solution that I started with.<br />While atheism may be a simple solution to these problems, it is hardly a solution for the wonders he has worked in my life with expediency and exact conclusion when I thought all was hopeless.maxolasersquadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885203204831537402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2160921736769720124.post-55482164584769711472009-04-26T21:52:00.000-04:002009-04-26T21:52:00.000-04:00Since you have accepted the basic claims put forth...Since you have accepted the basic claims put forth in the Bible, I have the following to say as a follow-up to your post:<br /><br />God started by himself. There was nothing. No pain, no suffering, no hurt, no want, no need...just nothing.<br /><br />From this void he decided to create something. He decided to create man. He did not do so with partial knowledge. He didn't make most of man and then leave the details to work themselves out. He didn't create the good parts and hope for the best on the bad stuff.<br /><br />No, it was total knowledge--down to every spin on ever quark in atom in every man. Every desire, every need, every want, they were all created by God.<br /><br />And this goes for the devil as well. When God was alone, there was no devil. There was only God, and when he brought the devil (and the other angels) into being he did so with full knowledge. Every ability, every vice, every weakness, every thought. Again, it was all not only known by God, but EXPLICITLY created.<br /><br />So when God's creations met in the garden of eden (which God created, of course) there was in fact nothing unknown going on. Given god's powers, it is simply impossible for him NOT to be 100% responsible for the outcome.<br /><br />Even if God were to have given the angels and man some magical ability to make random decisions on their own, I fail to see how that magic would be outside the realm of God. God created the free will. He created every atom in every person. Every personality characteristic in every angel, etc.<br /><br />It was all known. Not just known from a "this will probably happen" standpoint, but KNOWN in the sense that he had EVERY SINGLE VARIABLE.<br /><br />And remember, he started with nothing and conjured all of this on his own, by himself, using his powers of omniscience and omnipotence.<br /><br />So all the outcomes were his. This is plain to see for anyone who logically looks at the story. To blame man for "man's" actions is intellectually absurd, and it's far below you, my friend. Any omnipotent being that creates every fiber of a creature, out of thin air, and then blames that creation for its actions is either not omnipotent/omniscient or it is evil.<br /><br />But those aren't really our choices. Option three is the real answer, which is that it's all made up, by man, who is just a humble form of life in the universe that we don't understand.<br /><br />This answer is good enough for the intelligent. Break the chains, my friend. Break the chains.Daniel Miesslerhttp://dmiessler.comnoreply@blogger.com